Craigslist sucks
Can I ask a question that may get me shot by the rest of the geek community? Why does this site...
Command so much attention?
Ok so it was one of the first classified sites to be so liberal with it's posting structure and whatever else... but come on.. Look at that page design.
Some might say it's clean and simple - I say it shows a complete lack of style or substance.
Sure I have been accused of being too wordy and over complicating things, but surely the design sensibilities of Craiglist are the 180' opposite of that. And extremes in any direction are not good. Even Google has a logo on the top of it's page!
It makes me wonder...
Command so much attention?
Ok so it was one of the first classified sites to be so liberal with it's posting structure and whatever else... but come on.. Look at that page design.
Some might say it's clean and simple - I say it shows a complete lack of style or substance.
Sure I have been accused of being too wordy and over complicating things, but surely the design sensibilities of Craiglist are the 180' opposite of that. And extremes in any direction are not good. Even Google has a logo on the top of it's page!
It makes me wonder...
43 Comments:
I wouldn't go as far as putting it on the Websites That Suck list, but from a IA and UI perspective it leaves me wondering with you.
Like Google, Craigslist is so straight-forward and taps into the way people are used to looking for things inherently.
Unlike Google though, I haven't found Craigslist to evolve more than its original imprint in 1998. I know it has definitely expanded its network, but as far as evolving its UI, it really is sticking to the "old school" classifieds mentality. It's hard to trash Craigslist for keeping its model consistent, but I am of the thinking that it could be so much more without compromising the simplistic user experience it offers.
Hmmm, it makes me wonder too...
Exactly Heather - it doesn't compromise their 'look at us we're so simple' approach by having a logo - or would that mean they have 'sold out and gone corporate'?
The reason I am wondering is because those of us (you included judging by your blog - good read btw!) that spend time thinking about interaction design and creating a distinct user experience seem to be sometimes left in the dust by those who somehow ignore all that and capture lightning in a bottle.
So I guess my question is - is the lightning caught because the site is so duh stupid and lacking any distractions, or is the lightning caught because the idea was so good that people looked PAST the lack of style and now just don’t want their baby to change.
Your post makes me believe you just found out about the internet. Function over form.
Hi Anonymous - if you're going to call me out then it would be nice if you gave me a name to work with :)
My post was not about the Internet - it was about user interface and branding - concepts that existed long before the Internet.
Craigslist looks like a page designed back when the browser market was owned by Netscape. So to defend it as a typical internet site with typical internet sensibilities (of today) is probably to show that you're living in the past :)
Oh by the way - Function can co-exist with form - their not mutually exclusive.
"Some might say it's clean and simple - I say it shows a complete lack of style or substance."
Substance is everything here. That is why it is so wildly popular. Folks can seek out valuable information and actually find it without being bombarded by unrelated info.
As far as user experience goes... well, I can't see your point. I've posted maybe a hundred times to craiglist and have furniture, gadgets, new aquaintences, and or other things bought and sold because of it.
Very many of the casual web surfers I meet that have no care or knowledge of "good design" practices in the way of usability, etc... never think to complain about Craig's List. They use it almost as by second nature. They go there, click on their interests, and are satisfied. It's no wonder it's so popular.
I find it easily navigable and so do millions of others.
You ought to listen to the podcast from South by South West's conference which has Craig speaking and addressing the question of style amongst other things. http://2006.sxsw.com/interactive/programming/keynotes/
I'd suggest reading up on the philosophies behind the site. Craig's thoughts are posted all over the web. There is a purpose with the site and Democracy drives it.
Sorry but my point was that Craig's List works. and that is a bi-product of the users sense. In a world dominated by advertising monsters and stricken with usability wars that is a tremendous feat. Wouldn't you agree?
I know! Craigslist is the shittiest thing ever. At least one other person in the universe recognizes this.
I'd argue that craigslist isn't really for geeks, more for that crowd who thinks they are internet savvy but are really just tools, which unfortunately makes up for most of the users out there today. They don't realize how much better it COULD be and SHOULD be.
Craigslist does kind of suck, but it's not the Web design (which I find to be clean and uncluttered), but the culture.
There are personal ads but they're ALL SPAM, at least where I am (Detroit area). If it's not an ad for a porno Web page, it's some call girl trolling for tricks, or else desperate creepy middle-aged gay men trolling for teenage boys.
It's really odd. The terms of service are bizarre and counterintuitive, unless you strain to think like a Left Coast hippie. Try to sell firearms or anything related in the Sporting Goods section, and oh, the nastygrams pour in and you get flagged for "prohibited items" in seconds. I wasn't aware that buying or selling a gun privately was illegal, or for that matter anyone else's business.
Yet, oddly, the Women Seeking Men personals and Erotic Services sections are full of prostitutes, but no one cares. Gee, isn't that illegal?
Feh. Craigslist sucks.
I will de
I will defend craigslist here because I use the site. Part of usability is quickness and the site is very quick for Washington DC. I attribute this to the lack of spammy banner ads and its basic layout.
There is also ListDC.org, a site which I co-developed. It has a more modern looking design, uses a little ajax to help create postings, and the categories are nested sets so information is not hidden behind subcategories. It was designed to make browsing easier and overcome the traditional limitations of categories without resorting to tag anarchy.
I have used Craigslist while in the SF Bay Area, Chicago and Raleigh (I've moved around). While I have eventually gotten what I wanted out of the site (e.g. finding apartments, selling stuff, receiving resumes for my firms openings, etc.) I have found the function of the site to be cumbersome. I can't believe it took them so long to figure out people would want user accounts where they could manage their listings by signing in rather than keeping different emails lying around just so you can edit or delete a posting when necessary.
I also find that they don't capture enough information for some types of listings and that makes finding what you want on the larger volume sites a hassle.
On all the "local" sites there seems to be a problem with receiving spam after posting (yes, even with the anonymized emails). Another big pet peeve of mine is that it shows way too much information on the home page.
Because of my mostly negative experiences with Craigslist (the one thing that makes it great is the number of people using it, but take that away and the functionality AND form really suck) I am in the process of developing Illinilist.NET for my new local area because I found chambana.craigslist.org to have too many irrelevant postings and not organized enough. I personally prefer the tagging (or folksonomy) way of doing things, because that is a more true model of online "Democracy" than strict categories as on Craigslist. My website is very much still in its infancy, and really only born out of the bad taste that Craigslist has left in my mouth after using it for 7 years, especially since they have not responded to people's requests of what new things to add and do to improve the website.
One of my aims of Illinilist.NET is to respond efficiently to user suggestions. In fact, I have already received three suggestions from the handful of users beta testing it and have already updated the site two of those features (the site was only launched on Monday this week and I have a full-time job).
It also makes me laugh that Craiglist doesn't want to appear to be corporate in image, yet their "local" websites are just a generic web solution with on a new subdomain of the website. There is not real local focus.
Form and function aside, one of the legitimate uses of CL "could be" a way for companies to recruit telecommuters from a vast pool of people actually interested in telecommuting. This is the 21st Century and they have yet to figure out that there is a NEED by some companies to hire OUTSIDE of their local area. As in the case when you need 100 or so operators for a six month call management project. However, CL does not allow postings to multiple cities (for spam reasons I'm sure), which kills any chance of using CL as a true alternative to their competition. Yet, as another poster clearly pointed out, hooker ads are no problem for CL.
So let's see... no multi-city postings, but damnit if you're a gay dude looking for boys or a hooker looking for tricks, come on in, CL welcomes you!
Craig obviously lucked out back then by starting CL. Ever notice how some people "stumble" into success despite having any real brains. Sometimes it even takes someone else to point out to them what they even have, as in the case of so many people saying, get with 2007. It's not 1998 any more.
I'm with the author - there is no reason form and function have to be mutually exclusive. Craigslist is effective because it has an active user base. However, it looks amateur and much like slashdot, they're eventually going to have to succumb to the times where people expect at least a clean professional look out of any trusted application. Furthermore, their site highly user unfriendly, by not allowing users to search multiple cities simultaneously. They even ban access to third party sites attempting to create profitless search functionality they leave out. This blatant disregard for usability is ridiculous.
Check out a Craiglist with a college flair:
www.umarkt.com
Does craigslist suck because it has a simple format? Reminds me of Wreck Beach Video http://www.wreckbeachvideo.com
Hey There...
Craigslist is over rated. They are completely wrong in what they do and I would aloso say illigal in most states and in most country.
This is why.
http://www.empire-apartments.us/community/viewtopic.php?t=10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmpDIF3aCaI
I agree with you 100%. Visiting the site pretty much explains everything - Abusive staff/mods, unbalanced features, poor site organization, etc. Craigslist sucks.. period.
Yes craigslist sucks. The programming setup is old school. But I do not think this is the problem. One major problem with this system is security. Trolls are able to look up your IP address and track you.
The problem with craigslist has to do with their policies and how they do not work. This is a system that is policed by trolls.
People on this system are allowed to log in anonymous (gray) or have MANY, MANY handles. The trolls will stalk you, bate you, fight with you, and curse you.
There is nothing you can do about it since the staff is just as bad. If you make a complaint they tell you to ignore the troll. They also tell you to flag the troll for abuse. Their flagging system is USELESS since nothing ever happens. If you complain too much they kick you off instead of the troll.
Oh but there is hope, you can change a fourm to R+ (they would have to log in on one of their many green handles) by taking a poll. The CL staff will tell you take a poll and send it back, Craig will check it and decide. What they do not tell you is that once you post the Poll the trolls will take over like a bunch of cockroaches. Really they come out of the wood work, they will render your poll useless.
Think about it a troll does not want you to know who they are they need their anonymoity to abuse you. A trolls logic is there are times when they must give people confidentional answers and they don't want people to know who they are. Isn't this the same logic as the sexual prediator giving candy to a kid and don't forget to keep this a secret. The logic is beyond beleif. But this is craigs system and it is allowed.
You have the fox guarding the hen house. There is no one in charge.
This company was founded on Job Ads and placement. But it you goto the Job Fourm and ask a question you will be told a lie or be belittled. Very little comes from a bunch of trolls. This system offers nothing good nor is it a model of what a business should be.
This system is no more that a place for a bunch of preditors and sexual devits to hangout.
When you look at the complaints that they receive daily, you do have to wonder is anyone reading the complaints, they are a strong clue that "CRAIGSLIST SUCKS". The complaints say "DUH WE HAVE A PROBLEM HOUSTON".
This is Mike, although I chose anonymous, I dont have a log in so here it goes. Craigslist has the potential of being an unbelievable site, however by allowing the user community to flag postings it is impossible to use CL as a tool to get ahead, by marketing your business and saving money with the low overhead. It's ashame. If you make a post to multiple cities "BOOM" you get flagged. Post something that competes with eBay..."BOOM" you get flagged. It's really ashame. As for the overall look, that doesn't bother me, it could be better, but if CL did what I needed it to do, it wouldn't matter.
Everyone is commenting on how easy, simple and straightforward the UI is....I think exactly the opposite. Every single time, even from the very first time I got on to craigslist I was so confused about how to find anything that I immediately backed out...Just recently have I decided to give it another honest try because of the recommendations of friends. I almost gag everytime I see the home page. I too wonder why it gets soo much attention. For 1, I can't find anything I'm looking for and for 2, I can't sell anything that I list on CL. Why is it so great??? Nice post btw...I'm wondering why such an ugly topic had to be posted on such a clean and neat blog page. Maybe if one of the "programmers" from CL would check this out we might get some progress on the look of CL.
I wanted to come up with something original, but many people have encapsulated my negative (and sometimes positive) thoughts about Craiglist.
I think Miss Diane hit the nail on the head regarding the culture and the trolls. I have never thought of CL as a place that supports their community. As a matter of fact, do visit their forums. The 'trolls' run rampant there. Negative posts abound. I've gone there for answers only to be berated, harassed, condescended and left feeling like I never want to return.
Hence, my search on Google for "Craigslist Sucks" and discovering your blog (particls.com).
The flagging systems is far less than perfect. Those in the forums tout the TOU (Terms of Use) yet will also add that items will be flagged (potentially removed if enough flags are received) because people may simply NOT LIKE the ad (even if it falls within their useless TOU).
However, when an ad is flagged and removed, the user is then left unknowing as to why it was flagged (users who flag are given the option to categorize the type of flag they want attached to the ad, but the posting user never sees this). A testament to lack of support and attention CL gives to their visitors.
Spam and bogus ads persist. Hence, the reason for flagging. However, the bad guys win often by posting religiously. Good people just leave after a while.
Design and functionality is just terrible. Boring. And really needs an improvement. I like simple, but I really think CL is simply uninitiated to provide more for their visitors even though they are probably receiving tons of money producing traffic (not all ads are free in all cities).
I think when a site becomes as popular as CL, in large part because of the people who visit, then they should really give back by providing the people (their users) a safe environment. Certainly, they are not doing anywhere near where they can to beef up security. And though I've benefited by posting and buying there (not because I like the site, but because other people like me are using it), I still think that Craigslist is an unsafe place to post ads especially if you placing personal information on it.
I'm ranting but justifiably so. The design is, yes, old school. It's cumbersome. It's not easy to run searches. It's scattered. And "Craig" appears to not be too concerned about what it being posted in their forums based on all the negativity that abounds there. Sadly, they can probably make even more money for themselves if they were to improve their site.
I'm just hoping someone else comes around and takes their market share away. I've really had it with their site.
I found this by googling "craigslist sucks".
My main problem with them is I have to stick my head in daily to run searches and there's no way to automate that, and that you have to localize your searches. It is a pain in the ass to search statewide when distance is no object.
Craigslist does suck. They allow pornographic images and the site is too plain. My friend created a new site Oddbark.com some nice features include the ability to use html, upload images, audio & video. Also they inform you when your ad expires along with a few other features. Its really a cool site. I suggest you check it out. Plus its free!
Craigslist jobs is a joke. People are in dire need of help, yet they never reply to your email. Its ridiculous. And half the jobs are no lo deferred payment or unpaid. What you expect me to work all day or a whole week for free? On a low budget film that probably wont go anywhere? No thank you! Its also hard to get your foot in the door with a legitimate posting, because like 10000's of people reply in the first 20 minutes of the posting. So if you dont post a reply right after its posted, then there's no way you even have a chance. I wanted to do video production for a mlb volleyball tournament but they had already filled up and had 1000s. of emails. its ridiculous. Its typical catch 22. no one will give you a chance, and when they do they want you to work for free when yo ucan't. I need to be making some money even $8-10 an hour just to survive! and pay bills. I can't work for some production house for free for a year. I'm sorry. Craigslist is a load of bull. Frankly thanks to craigslist I am probably going to give up all hope of ever finding a job in video / tv or film production. Somehow everyone else gets jobs and experience. But how the hell to you break into the business is beyond me. And craigslist only seems to hire people with 20 yrs + experience anyway. or their own equipment which costs money, lots of it. and if you dont have money or experience you're screwed. Yeah I have 4-5 yrs experience just not 10-25 yrs.
Craigslist jobs sucks
Craglist lets users abuse the system by letting them flagg other users automatically. When I post a personal ad in the casual encounter section, I get flagged immidiately, and I have emailed Cragslist to ban that user and nothing gets done. I see others post the same thing over and over again and nothing happends to them, but when I post something I automatically get flagged, whats up with that, can anyone give me any advice, I have done nothing wrong, just posting an ad and someone just keeps flagging me over and over again, help!!!!
Has anyone noticed that Craigslist compounds sexism and racism by allowing businesses to break the law by requesting "PHOTOS" so they can see what the candidate looks like before they call them in for an interview based upon their ( . )( . ) "qualifications"?
Call me over analitical, but then again I didn't get a phone call until I posted someones photo of a totally different race with a resume that was sent in over 20 times.
I won't say it was Gramercy Park Hotel in Manhattan, but I will let you draw your own conclusion.
They said they were looking for someone with "luxury hotel experience" which I have, but of course racist people stick together like cockroaches and cheap apartments. But I didn't come here to start a race riot ( because racist people are the most violent people you can encounter). Why would a website like craigslist allow this to go on?
On the topic of Craig's List TOU being useless ... apparently they're not useless to the trolls.
I have carefully read the TOU, and posted an advert in the "creative services" section for my photography business. It's supposed to be allowed there. Other photographers post their ads there.
Three days in a row now, my ad has been deleted due to having been flagged.
I carefully sifted through the terms of use that Craig's List posts, and my posting was in violation of none of them.
The Craig's List staff refuses to answer my emails asking how my posts violated their TOU.
Apparently, well written ad copy is not welcome on Craig's List.
Craigslist blows, It takes forever to find anything on their 1990's bbs type board and my legit ads get flagged way to often and I'm sick of reposting!!!
The only way to get change is use backpages.com or tradeurban.com or ebay
knew od the site but never used it do to the drug selling, hookers and flakes. Just the other day I went to go online and my service was terminated from my local provider. After over 6 hours of qwest telling me that a formal complaint was filed and they terminated my service I kept trying to ask who filed the complaint but no one would give me an answer finlly someone at qwest fessed up that it was a harassment complaint from craigslist on a dial up account i had but they took it upon themselves to discontinue my business isdn service.
i do not know what type of pull craigslist has with all the isp's but this is a bit much that they can just randomly pick an ip address and file a complaint and keep it secrect from the one affected. My company lost over $5,000 with having to switch to another service with all the downtime and reprogramming of our isdn.
stay away.. far away.. That whole site is on our block list now with our new isp
Site with some very dangerous users and TOS means shit.
They are becoming more strict though which is getting annoying. They are straying away from the free spirit principals that made them so popular.
Has anyone heard of tradeurban.com?
It’s better then Craigslist.com, It lets me list all my items under my profile and lets me make the items active or inactive whenever I want without relisting. My thing is like an online garage sale. Msg me for my profile, I don’t know if I can put it on here.
-Jenny
My problem with that site is thier stupid and confusing rules. You can post for any number illict and immoral activites but you can't sell a blood pressure machine.
once you get past the terms of use that have been cobbled together on the fly by people who have zero business writing rule documentation, CL's ad space works pretty well for what it is...
But the CL forums are without a doubt the biggest cesspool on the web...not because of the users being any worse than anywhere else, but because the moderation by Craig and staff is so petty, reactionary and done in bad faith- their mantra is to ignore the trolls who violate the rules and flag them, but those flags themselves are largely ignored and the rules selectively enforced, and full blown sociopaths are allowed free reign to troll and harass others using sock puppet handles that staff refuses to even acknowledge, let alone remove or otherwise punish.
As the old saying goes, "the fish rots from the head down"...and in light of CL staff and especially Craig's bad faith dealings, secrecy for the sake of secrecy, willful lack of responses to sincere requests for help and clarification of rules, capricious rule changes made without any notification or change in official documentation, and insistence that ignoring sociopaths will make them go away- even after the site has been used by murderers and rapists and other criminals to find victims- it's no wonder that the place is the mess that it is... CL's success is 100% in spite of the people who run it, not because of them.
Anyone who wants can Google some of the interviews Craig has given over the years and find that he is by his own admission pretty much the epitome of the stereotypical socially retarded computer geek with NO people skills whatsoever, who is surrounded by and only listens to yes men and sycophantic SF types who think like him...very telling stuff, especially when he is quoted as saying-
"I don’t believe in logic. I believe in reasoning and common sense. Logic is often misleading because logic is not human or humane.”
-when the guy at the helm believes that "reasoning" can be done in the absence of logic, what hope is there for either?
craigslist sucks and yes it's the culture. rather than provide a user friendly site these guys ride their egos like horses. for example, you can't search across all localities because they want to keep it "local". EVEN IF THERE ARE ADS THAT ARE NATIONAL IN SCOPE. stupid. stupid. stupid. it's enough to make me start programming a competitive free classifieds site to unseat these arrogant pricks. oh and they banned my ip for having hit too many of their newsfeeds. i wish someone would ddos them. i wish someone would make their servers crash and could extend that to any backups they have in place. craigslist is the most popular least user friendly site on the internet.
Hi There, Julia in Montana here. I used (USED being the key word) CL to buy some stuff, and sold a little crap on there. That's the key, it has to be crap. I just triend to list two hunting bows (not against their TOU) and a mounted bear and was flagged. Apparently a mount is considered an "animal part" and prohibited. CRAIGSLIST SUCKS. ; )
the staff are abusive and retain way too much information about you and your ip address. One of the staff sent an email to my provider and stated a bunch of lies that i was harassing other users and recommenced they discontinue my internet service and demanded my identity or else they would ban all the ip's of my provider. ( i have the forwarded email they sent ) my contact and myself had a good laugh about it considering my connection was not active the day they claim.
Someone mentioned before the culture and abusive behavior on CL both by those posting ads but more importantly, the staff and those in their forums. I must say that I have never really seen many more communities more abusive than those that exist on Craigslist. I was once an incredible fan of Craig and Craigslist (even emailed him regularly in the early days), but now, it has grown a brand too out of control for its managers to manage properly, effectively and with the consumer's interest in mind. Unless the consumer base is now BOTS, Scammers, Spammers and rude fowl members who attack others in their community. What a shame.
The thing I hate most about it is the fact that the so called, "flagging Help Forum" is just a troll trap. You go there trying to find help and all you get is insulted, belittled and humiliated. I am pretty thick skinned but even I have had my feelings badly hurt on several occasions. The Pet Community is the worst!! I visit the site to try to help animals in need of a home but the pet community members as a whole are so fanatical that they have forgotten to be compassionate towards humanity. It is just horrible.
90% of Craigslist traffic comes from hookers and their clients.
I started using http://cl.radiux.com instead.
I thought Craig's List sucked when I first went to it. But after I took some time to figure out how to use it, I've found it to be a priceless tool. I've used it to sell broken old second hand stuff, find a job, and I use it to advertise my computer service business.
I've found Craig's List to be a successful tool for each of the purposes I have named above.
And one more thing, the Best of Craig's List page is very funny.
Apparently cragislist is choosing to arbitrarily censor some of its advertisers...
We own an operate a nightclub in Hollywood. Ads were placed on craigslist for staff. We asked for applicants to submit a resume, cover letter and photo. (The photo request is standard practice in the world of trendy nightclubs as we prefer to hire attractive people for the more visible jobs.)
A "customer support" person named "Aristotle" actually phoned us and was very upset that we asked for a photo. Apparently it PERSONALLY offended him that we would care about a person's appearance. Our response was that we are no different than a casting agency, modeling agency, or other Hollywood job that relied on a person's looks.
We were informed that our ads were being deleted immediately and to never advertise with their service again. When asked how our ad was in violation of any of there terms of use. The representative was not able to indicate anything in their terms of use prohibiting a photo request. We were told that it violated "his personal opinion" and that he was removing our ads.
Now craigslist contains ads for prostitution, casting for pornographic films, and dozens of other "questionable" categories. How is it appropriate that one customer service representative can choose to censor some innocent ads on a whim?
-Noah
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